What are the next steps for the Flyff p-server scene?

[Max98]

Hello, I've always had this question in my head for the past year and I'd like to spark this discussion with the Lodelight community:

What are the next steps for the Flyff p-server scene?
To rephrase this, I would say, what should be done about Flyff? How can I innovate and keep making the game attractive for players, since most of current p-servers are a big mess, not really something you'd invest either time or money into (other than maybe just insanity Flyff for their uptime)

What should be done about gameplay? More jobs? More worlds? More levels? More skills? More buffs? Im pretty certain no body here knows about ALL the buff items currently in game
That seems to be the path FlyFFPC took and FlyffU simply went back to flyffv7 with some edits here and there, still nothing special and the game is still the same.

In my opinion the game is toooo "2000s" on all its aspects, back then people would simply enjoy leveling and flying around with their boards/wings, but now? Not so much, I don't think people even have enough time for it (Which explains the unbalanced high exp pservers, never-ending leveling but for what purpose? to become an MVP on guild sieges or whatever other custom features there are?)
Low-level content is too boring, no access to fancy stuff, economy is unbalanced for low levelers, etc etc....

I remember @devious has/had? a project he talked about to me once where he aimed to fix most of the flyff gameplay problems and it was really interesting, I used to work with Jcdace when I was a young kid (hai sir) and he had a lot of innovation and had really good plans with FlyForGlory or whatever it had become.. My experience with Cosmos flyff was not good at all, not in terms of team work, but in terms of how fucked up the community/players are and how toxic they were, what they wanted and how unbalanced the server became after listening to the never-satisfied players.

... Back to the main question. How can we.... fix it?

Graphics wont cut it since it's simply visuals and they wont cover over the gameplay.
Revamping the quest system is something that has to be done
Revamping the dungeon system and make them mainly accessible to everyone on most level ranges (a.k.a difficulty settings)
Have a meaningful story line that would catch the player's attention (wink wink genshin impact)
... post your ideas!

P.S; please only constructive criticism.

My reference: Genshin Impact, you should play it.

 

[Caves]

One thing about p-servers is that most are just aimed towards short-term-quick-profit then rebrand and repeat.
One of the things I dream of making once i get enough knowledge of the game would be to create a team based pvp defend and destroy type of game.
Something like the Crystal Defender game that Fly For Fantasy had back in 2011. There was also a person who tried to get the War of Emperium or WoE from Ragnarok Online I'm not sure if it worked but if that system had worked it would have be a nice addition.

Tbh, there's already too much content in the game (Item Wise). So a good way or better way of managing or using them would be one more thing to do/re-do.

One suggestion is maybe change the combat system from a tab target into 3rd person MMO RPG.
I played Black Desert Online and boy thats the only other game I ever played more than 5 years after flyff.
The video below shows one of the recent class additions for BDO and Visuals play a great part in making the game enjoyable. Eye-candy so to say.

 

[devious]

HAS*

To be honest, what has brought me most joy when playing games, is the feeling of company and shared goal. So making flyff more team-oriented is what I see a huge difference maker

 

[OREO]

Warning: controversial and pessimistic opinion below

I don’t believe there’s any saving Flyff, no revamping, and no bringing new life into it. Flyff is what it is. If players want a modern, polished gaming experience, no indie developer is going to elevate Flyff to that level on a server - it’s just not realistic. Flyff is on the same path as other games: a gradually shrinking, yet devoted fan base that loves it for what it is and the nostalgia it brings.

In fact, I believe trying to transform Flyff away from its classic 2000s charm and outdated gameplay (relative to modern expectations) is counterproductive. Attempts to modernize the game only risk eroding the nostalgia, which, in my opinion, is the last real appeal it has.

Although this perspective might sound depressing, I don’t see it that way. We need to appreciate Flyff for what it was and what it still is, and let that be enough. Sure, we should experiment with ideas, fix bugs, improve stability, and clean up broken systems; create some new dungeons, create endgame content and develop new activities and minigames. But IMO aiming for anything too far away from the core nostalgic, goofy and sometimes stupid game is misguided and I highly doubt it will ever be enough to bring in new audiences.

I know this comparison is quite removed from our game and our small-scale p-servers, but consider what happened with Runescape. Its combat, graphics, and overall gameplay were outdated compared to modern games, so the developers decided to completely overhaul it, modernizing everything in hopes of reviving interest. In some ways, this worked, but not as they expected -there was such a backlash from the community that they ended up releasing Old School Runescape, which brought in more fans than ever.

But why? Old School Runescape had clunky, old-fashioned combat, poor graphics, and broken, outdated systems. Yet people recognized that Runescape would never truly compete with the standards of modern gaming, even with updated combat and visuals - it still couldn’t match up to its competitors. But what did they do? brought out new systems, minigames, dungeons, items, pets, activities - but they kept the clunky combat and all of the "failings" of the game because that's what kept it nostalgic, that's what kept the devoted fanbase.

 

[devious]

Warning: controversial and pessimistic opinion below

I don’t believe there’s any saving Flyff, no revamping, and no bringing new life into it. Flyff is what it is. If players want a modern, polished gaming experience, no indie developer is going to elevate Flyff to that level on a server - it’s just not realistic. Flyff is on the same path as other games: a gradually shrinking, yet devoted fan base that loves it for what it is and the nostalgia it brings.

In fact, I believe trying to transform Flyff away from its classic 2000s charm and outdated gameplay (relative to modern expectations) is counterproductive. Attempts to modernize the game only risk eroding the nostalgia, which, in my opinion, is the last real appeal it has.

Although this perspective might sound depressing, I don’t see it that way. We need to appreciate Flyff for what it was and what it still is, and let that be enough. Sure, we should experiment with ideas, fix bugs, improve stability, and clean up broken systems; create some new dungeons, create endgame content and develop new activities and minigames. But IMO aiming for anything too far away from the core nostalgic, goofy and sometimes stupid game is misguided and I highly doubt it will ever be enough to bring in new audiences.

I know this comparison is quite removed from our game and our small-scale p-servers, but consider what happened with Runescape. Its combat, graphics, and overall gameplay were outdated compared to modern games, so the developers decided to completely overhaul it, modernizing everything in hopes of reviving interest. In some ways, this worked, but not as they expected -there was such a backlash from the community that they ended up releasing Old School Runescape, which brought in more fans than ever.

But why? Old School Runescape had clunky, old-fashioned combat, poor graphics, and broken, outdated systems. Yet people recognized that Runescape would never truly compete with the standards of modern gaming, even with updated combat and visuals - it still couldn’t match up to its competitors. But what did they do? brought out new systems, minigames, dungeons, items, pets, activities - but they kept the clunky combat and all of the "failings" of the game because that's what kept it nostalgic, that's what kept the devoted fanbase.

Pretty sure Flyff universe and osrs have managed to bring in new players, not only the nostalgia fans.
Also another example of dead retail game, but very much alive in private sector is Lineage II, projects with 10k-20k ccu constantly, pretty impressive.

So in my opinion any game can be revived and renewed if you just remaster it fix its flaws and make it enjoyable.

 

[OREO]

Pretty sure Flyff universe and osrs have managed to bring in new players, not only the nostalgia fans.
Also another example of dead retail game, but very much alive in private sector is Lineage II, projects with 10k-20k ccu constantly, pretty impressive.

So in my opinion any game can be revived and renewed if you just remaster it fix its flaws and make it enjoyable.

I think OSRS probably has, but that's kind of exactly my point. People are talking about changing the combat, changing this changing that, and OSRS showed this is not always a good idea, even if the existing system is "outdated" by modern standards.

We also have to remember the vastly different resources available to the developers of OSRS and a dev of a flyff p-server.

 

[devious]

Yeah identifying what needs changing is a fine line. I've managed to do some research with gamers that have never tried flyff before, one of main things that stood out in fact wasn't a combat, but illogical items, buffs, economy and progression.

I am not taking into consideration of resources, as it's dev-team specific thing and not game specific.

 

[OREO]

Yeah identifying what needs changing is a fine line. I've managed to do some research with gamers that have never tried flyff before, one of main things that stood out in fact wasn't a combat, but illogical items, buffs, economy and progression.

I am not taking into consideration of resources, as it's dev-team specific thing and not game specific.

By resources I don't mean game assets, I mean money, software, high-quality experienced developers, server quality, staff numbers.

 

[devious]

By resources I don't mean game assets, I mean money, software, high-quality experienced developers, server quality, staff numbers.

Yep, that is what I had in mind.

 

[H2oR]

This game is what it is, and I honestly don’t think it’s worth trying to change it fundamentally - it would require an insane amount of effort, almost like building an entirely new game.

Yes, Flyff has its flaws, and it’s very much a product of the 2000s actually, which simply doesn’t resonate with players today. In my opinion, any attempt to reinvent it would just be a waste of time.

In the end, Flyff survives mainly because of the nostalgia it brings to those who played it back in the day. It’s a reminder of simpler times, and while that nostalgia is powerful, it doesn’t change the fact that this is a game whose time has passed.

All ideas are essentially the same because I think every server owner has a similar mindset: let’s add some maps, mobs, and hope things will work out. It’s not necessarily a bad approach. Honestly, there’s not much else to do (maybe I’m wrong).

But when does it become a problem? When these add-ons are just copied and pasted from another server. Then, you end up with a cycle of the same recycled content, making each server feel like just another “dead server” in the chain.

 

[Marvin]

All ideas are essentially the same because I think every server owner has a similar mindset: let’s add some maps, mobs, and hope things will work out. It’s not necessarily a bad approach. Honestly, there’s not much else to do (maybe I’m wrong).

Yes and no.

The biggest problem in the Scene is to find people to work with, that are not trying to just scam you or reselling your shit.

Trying to make a new Game out of Flyff is probably the worst thing you can do.
While it might be true that Universe manages to get new Players, you‘re not seeing them Reworking essential Gameplay.

There is alot of Potential, even for Private Servers without destroying the „nostalgia“ which are 95% of the Playerbase.

It‘s true, things get copied etc. But stuff like the boss Mechanics from Tractor/Emerald only got copied cause the Source got released. Which counts for alot other Systems aswell.

 

[Lapin]

I too had this discussion recently with quite a few developers about this subject, already we are all surprised that there is still "hype" for this game, after being so bad for business we are not going to complain.

On the other hand, we are all unanimous on the fact that any big change, whether visual or many things in the gameplay, absolutely does not attract the players. at least in large doses if it's well balanced why not (I'm the first that it pisses off given that I've remade the whole madrigal.. but hey I don't do that anymore for pleasure then I'll see to make sure that The players like it.. I still have time to think about all this..)

There may be one or two servers that work like this and they still have a lot of regular players but no more new ones. all this to say that the players don't care a bit about having xx new features, they prefer an oldschool server with plenty of qol and a few maps, why not. mid rates with a CS store.. the servers are fine, they are fine. players very rarely stay on a server for more than two months, they will inevitably look elsewhere later, you can keep your base accustomed to around a hundred who will run your server but you will never be able to capture the attention of players in the long term , they like to move too much and see elsewhere.

That the game ..
Players test servers, farm, CS, farm refund their CS (dispute) and go elsewhere, yes immediately. they are also very demanding, if you have the misfortune of offending a guild leader or a known member, you lose the entire guild overnight and you end up with xx disputes xD

 

[FarmerJon]

Like others have mentioned nostalgia is a big thing that is keeping the game alive. Anything outside of doing "simple" mods would be a big waste of your time to be honest. You would be far better off using another game engine or framework to build the it off of then trying to change the code drastically on something that was made in early 2000. You could make it on another platform faster then trying to edit code and have the same style, while having used all the new programing/networking standards. That is my 2cents lol.

 

[travistytrav]

Just some thoughts I've had a lot lately and what I'm currently implementing with my team

"More" has proven to not be the solution. A lot "less" looks way more beneficial than anything else.
Although there is some really cool reimaginations of Flyff out there, nobody is nostalgic for your custom maps. And this community is very nostalgia driven. Not saying these shouldn't be implemented, but they definitely should not overwrite the original.

With nostalgia being a big factor, a lot of servers don't implement much to relive that experience more than just once. A couple of examples:

1) I love savage wilds, and running it on a ranger. That's one big thing that is nostalgic to me. But the second i out-level that dungeon even by 1 level, i can never get that experience again in your server without starting another character of the exact same class.

2) If Universe Flyff has shown anything, it's that the community thrives when its together and when you can see other players doing what you are doing. Hiding people behind ticketed island might be good for farm spots, but it sucks the life out of the overworld. There's better ways to handle this.

3) It's very deterring for my friend to join me on other servers where I'm a way higher level. All i can do for them is be a buff bot to help them level, and that's boring. There is plenty of games where helping your friends isn't a hinderance or a chore for you.

4) Although I'm not a huge fan of seasonal server / games in general, i do see the appeal for them in a game that's been "mastered". There's definitely better ways to implement this then what I've seen out there, but it would be dependent on the factors of the server.

But yeah, given the meta of pump and dump servers, players are very weary to join private servers in general. Like Lapin has said, players are often only around for 2 months and if you ban the wrong person, 1 - 3 guilds all quit. And have fun with support if you ban an internet cafe

 

[Kadan]

Just some thoughts I've had a lot lately and what I'm currently implementing with my team

"More" has proven to not be the solution. A lot "less" looks way more beneficial than anything else.
Although there is some really cool reimaginations of Flyff out there, nobody is nostalgic for your custom maps. And this community is very nostalgia driven. Not saying these shouldn't be implemented, but they definitely should not overwrite the original.

With nostalgia being a big factor, a lot of servers don't implement much to relive that experience more than just once. A couple of examples:

1) I love savage wilds, and running it on a ranger. That's one big thing that is nostalgic to me. But the second i out-level that dungeon even by 1 level, i can never get that experience again in your server without starting another character of the exact same class.

2) If Universe Flyff has shown anything, it's that the community thrives when its together and when you can see other players doing what you are doing. Hiding people behind ticketed island might be good for farm spots, but it sucks the life out of the overworld. There's better ways to handle this.

3) It's very deterring for my friend to join me on other servers where I'm a way higher level. All i can do for them is be a buff bot to help them level, and that's boring. There is plenty of games where helping your friends isn't a hinderance or a chore for you.

4) Although I'm not a huge fan of seasonal server / games in general, i do see the appeal for them in a game that's been "mastered". There's definitely better ways to implement this then what I've seen out there, but it would be dependent on the factors of the server.

But yeah, given the meta of pump and dump servers, players are very weary to join private servers in general. Like Lapin has said, players are often only around for 2 months and if you ban the wrong person, 1 - 3 guilds all quit. And have fun with support if you ban an internet cafe

Hi,

I agree with your points

1 / one solution could be to have a level cap, or a difficulty modifier so you don't lose that "edge" feeling of difficulty when running the dungeon.

2/ that's true, mmo's are about community, nobody plays this game for the graphics, the lore or the gameplay. You have to find a middle ground between ticketing and having flooded open world spots though.

3/ That is boring, you'd be better off creating another alt yourself

4/ Curious to see your explanation on that point though


again that's true, although I did not follow the scene lately, it seems it has always been the case, hopping over and over

 

[travistytrav]

4/ Curious to see your explanation on that point though

My biggest issue with how some servers, and other games in general, have implemented seasonal systems is that it feels ( to me and my friends anyways ) bad to join a season that is nearing it's end. Not only this stage, but also the stage between the end of a season and the start of the next one kind of sucks.

For one example, and this is an experience from FWC on Universe Flyff, but if you're a new player and you've joined the FWC server straight away, by the time the merger happens, all your valuable stuff is soul linked and your penya is wiped. Now i completely understand why they do this, to try and mitigate inflation and market damage this causes as much as possible, but it does suck to have 0 penya and mid-tier gear because you've joined late and don't have another character with money on the main server already.

Outside of that, often the down time between a season ending and another starting is when devs are planning and developing additional content. This generally leads to the main server being dead as maxed players have left the game waiting for the next season, as many would think "what's the point in grinding when next season is just a fresh wipe anyway?". This also deters new players too if they see your server is currently dead or if they know you're in the limbo stage of seasons.

There just doesn't seem to be any bridges implemented to handle this currently, and honestly i don't have much of a tried and true solution for it either

 

[Fliperworld]

If I were to rely on or invest in Flyff, I would likely choose to "remodel" the game without requiring too much effort. The game already has essential mechanics in place. So why not simply follow the trend of some games that include 'mini-games'?

For instance, leveraging events like Rainbow Race and creating a variety of mini-games inspired by popular activities on Minecraft servers. Examples include hide-and-seek, Bed Wars, SkyWars, Spleef, Build Battle, and even parkour challenges. These types of competitive or cooperative games have proven to be engaging and could easily inspire similar features in Flyff.

Additional ideas include platform-style competitions similar to Fall Guys or instances that simulate battle royale scenarios. These features could bring new excitement to the game, attracting both casual and competitive players.

From a development perspective, much of the necessary code for these features already exists in some form within Flyff. This makes the implementation feasible and cost-effective. Furthermore, mini-games would naturally lend themselves to opportunities for monetization. Players could purchase benefits such as buffs to improve performance, or reductions in cooldown times to play certain events again. These microtransactions, if implemented thoughtfully, could generate consistent revenue without disrupting gameplay fairness.

Another draw for players would be the rewards tied to these events. Offering exclusive prizes, rare items, or unique cosmetics for participating in or winning mini-games would create strong incentives for engagement. This could motivate players to log in frequently, keeping the community active and thriving.

More importantly, introducing these modernized features could revitalize the player base by offering fresh and engaging content. Since the game's original style struggles to retain players, these additions would not only attract new audiences but also give existing players more reasons to stay.

Well, I don’t know, maybe what I said was nonsense since I’m not really in touch with the Flyff community. But hey, the topic seems pretty active, so I thought I’d drop by to stir things up a bit, lol.

 

[Yasu]

I think that you need a large team for good, long-term projects and then you really have to go for it. Everything that Flyff had as a unique selling point is gone. Aion brought wings to other MMORPGs and many games now also have cosmetics in this form. I myself only play from time to time for nostalgia's sake.

I have some ideas and an extreme desire to make a big project out of it, but I lack the resources, the know-how and a team.
I am more like a Project Manager / Think-Tank.

But hey, in the end, there are still reasons why we're here, right?